Two Miami courtrooms, two cases, one very interesting juxtaposition of Florida law:
In criminal court, prosecutors dropped a child abuse case against a man named Loscar Rodriguez, a father, who decided that a good belt lashing would teach his 8 year old son to get better grades. Did the boy get better grades? Not sure, but he did get raised welts on his leg and backside, bruises big and purple enough to alarm a teacher, and a butt that hurt him to sit upon.
At the same time, across town at the District Court of Appeals, a man named Frank Gill fought to protect his status as the father of two boys he first fostered then adopted. He and his partner had taken in the two young brothers who had known no other healthy family, and were eventually called exemplary fathers and family, but the state is appealing the adoption because Gill is gay.
Florida law bans gay people from adopting children. But it protects the right to beat a child with an object until he/she is black and blue.
Back in criminal court, prosecutors cited case law that helped them decide the belt-wielding, lash-giving Rodriguez is not a child abuser under the law. Turns out, in cases past, Florida appellate judges have opined “even significant bruises or welts from paddling” is discipline, not abuse; that “a strike on the face, a split lip, forced feeding” is – you guessed it – discipline, not abuse. Exactly what does a child learn from that? How and when to dole out the same violence when he/she grows up?
Back to the DCA. Attorneys for Gill argued Florida’s exclusion of gays in the adoption process is unconstitutional. The ban has been law for decades and has prevented countless children from the benefits of loving, responsible, nurturing parents.
The appellate court ruling usually takes a few months.
The criminal court case was dropped in 12 minutes.
Milberg's Musings 
Don’t let gay people adopt!
Noooo, let’s take kids out of a loving home, place them in the system, or wait — even better — put them in a home with straight parents who might beat them to death!
Unbelieveable!
Glenna,
Thanks again for brining light to a subject that doesn’t get enough attention. Alot kids are probably afraid now that they know that their parent can break their lip or bruise them up and it’s legal, and the shelter they can get from another parent (GAY) they can’t get because of ancient laws. Gay people everyday give to the community, just by working and paying taxes but still we get the short end of the stick. I’m not bitter because I know I’m a good person I have great family and friends that love me and me them.
Glenna where can I write to to try to change these two laws, and I will pass it on. Thanks and keep up the great work you always do.
P.S. I would prefer you as lead achor at 6pm-don’t tell shhhhhhhhh
apples and oranges, one would surmise.
one is a dad who wants to do a teaching of a child be it via his chosen means of discipline—–though sadly overdone and harmful; one is a gay dad, perhaps a great dad, that yearns to make the bond fully legal but has run into some state laws that surely govern similarly-situated Floridians;
one gets dismissed for purely legal grounds; the other is being battled, similarly, for purely legal grounds, so, what’s the great revelation here????????
Obviously the ‘great revelation’ isnt found in the existence of the law, but the legitimacy of the law in question.
The argument here is that the law preventing gay people from adopting children is unconstitutional and therefore illegtitimate. Such a law should not be governing any Floridians.
Conversely, the state might want to consider protecting its young citizens from being subject to assault by their parents and guardians.
It’s preposterous to me that any adult who strikes another adult with a belt or their fist causing bruising, bleeding and other similar injuries can and will be arrested and charged with assault, but if the same adult strikes a CHILD in this manner, the law protects the adult’s right to assault the child.
“his chosen means of discipline”
ah – as long as the means of violence is of your own choice, it’s ok then.
Florida makes me just a little more disgusted with the judicial system. I guess being gay is the new black, and in turn we will be discriminated against until people realize we are not creatures from the blue lagoon…..which will be when someone anyone stands up and fights for our farking rights given to us in the Constitution of the United States! We are backwards people haven’t you realized yet that hate is a tool the government uses to keep us at each other’s throats! I mean come on…..this crazy latino beat his kid so bad the poor thing couldn’t sit down! YET IT IS LEGAL………..and two children who have a chance to have a loving family are told no they have to wait in line for some straight people to one day come by and take them away to a magical land where no gay will ever raise a child…………FLORIDA IS NUTS!!!!!!!!!!! I guess you could call me a concerned on looker as I live very far away from such a mess….my mess is here in Ohio….where it is still legal to get fired for being gay! My state has no room to talk I suppose.
Don’t be naive in assuming you all haven’t learned from your parents to keep your hands to yourselves and harm no one except in direct self-defense. Parenting has one purpose in this country, the same purpose as the country itself: to indoctrinate our youth to militarism. Most of you have learned nothing but how to scapegoat others and fight amongst yourselves.
Um, seriously…parenting is an indoctrination to militarism? What are you smoking? You are, apparently, NOT a parent. The last thing a GOOD mother or father has on his or her mind is militarism when we are trying to raise good, hard-working, ethical, mentally strong, emotionally stable, intelligent contributors to society. The sexual orientation of the parent is not a factor in the love and yes, discipline that parent gives. There is a huge difference between discipline and abuse but I can assure you, neither has anything to do with indoctrinating our youth to militarism…unless the parent in question is a militant to begin with…in which case, you are generalizing the entire population of parents in the country with your statement. Still wrong…you fail.
nothing better than a good smack across the choppers to straiten out a kid. They will learn right from wrong pretty fast that way.
They will learn right from wrong alright. That it’s RIGHT to hit someone when they don’t do what you want, and that it’s WRONG to try and talk it out.
Please tell me you don’t have kids!
I am sorry to hear that Florida is so freaking backwards in its notions! It is sad that 2 children in a loving environment will be ripped from the arms of 2 parents that love then unconditionally as they should be only because the parents are 2 gay men. Leave the children be! What are you afraid that being gay is a disease that will be rubbed off on the children when they hug them? Do you think that just be because they are raised by 2 gay parents that the children will be sexually abused? I am sorry but I know enough gay parents in Chicago that love their children and would do anything they could to protect their children from harm, especially abuse like that given by Mr. Rodriguez. In these times I wish we could punish parents like Rodriguez the same way he punished his poor 8 year old! I was belted as a child much like his kid for bad grades, but at that time we did not have child abuse laws as strict as we do now in Chicago. I think both the judge that dropped the case and Rodriguez should be taken over a bench and beaten with a belt till they have raised welts and cannot sit down!!! At the same time add the District Court of Appeals to this group for trying to reverse the adoption of the children by the gay couple! You should all be ashamed of yourselves! Florida should be ashamed of themselves!!!
Seriously? I got paddled as a child and I turned out fine, I’ve never had any violent tendencies.. My mom tells a story about how she spanked me one time and I ended up with a bruise on my bottom and she was deathly afraid that CPS would take me away.. There is nothing wrong with teaching a child right from wrong with physical consequences.
That said, on to the gay issue. If you want to be gay fine. Gay is not normal. Gay animals cannot procreate. Therefore gay people can’t either. And since their chosen aberrant behavior (read lifestyle) makes them unable to conceive they shoudl not have children. Being gay is not ok and having kids grow up in a gay household will just promote more of this “its ok to do whatever” mentality our liberal media overlords want..
Congratulstions, you live up to your name!
This white zombie knows what hes talking about!
Gay is not normal in any way shape or form.
Being a infertile heterosexual is not “normal” so I guess they shouldn’t be allowed to adopt either, according to your philosophy.
Define “normal,” please. If you mean “not like the majority,” then white people are not “normal” when compared to the world’s population.
If you want to “be” gay??? It’s not a flip of the coin decision. Hmmm, let me see, gay – straight – gay – straight. Think I’ll go with gay – this week. Being gay is not synonymous with pedifilia or teaching the wrong life-style any more than straight is synonymous with pedifilia or the wrong life style. Zombie, come out of your deep sleep would ya?
“Florida law bans gay people from adopting children. But it protects the right to beat a child with an object until he/she is black and blue.”
Yes, let’s allow children to grow up in a gay household. Sure, that’s normal. That’s what they should be exposed to. They should have two fathers or two mothers for role models (or however that works). I’m sure they’ll grow up perfectly normal and be outstanding citizens who give back to their communities. Just like Isidro! (But I guarantee that Isidro isn’t getting the short end of any “stick”).
And let’s not allow parents to discipline their children. That’s the last thing we need in today’s world. Hey, let’s have the schools or the government do it for us! Yes, I’m sure that’s the answer. The government will never let us down.
Quite right, if children are allowed to grow up with gay parents they will almost certainly be sexually abused, and will end up rapists and perverts themselves. Not only should we not allow gays to adopt, we should also take away children from their biological parents if they are gay. If they don’t like it, tough. Just stop being gay, and be grateful we don’t lock you away for it!
Or… Julie and white zombie could stop repeating the BS they heard in their church, or from Rush, or other far right blowhards, and for once in their lives think for themselves.
What exactly makes people think that children of gay parents will be molested? Homosexuality does NOT equal pedophilia. How many children of gay parents do you actually know?
True example: Biological mother and her partner have been together since the son was 4. The son is healthy, on the honor roll, witty, and a multi-sport athlete. I have never seen him treat any person with anything less than respect. He is very well-liked by his peers and is in his freshman year of college. I’ve never known him to drink, smoke, or do drugs.
In short, he is most parents’ dream.
Spare the rod, spoil the child.
[…] Story Here Sphere: Related ContentShare/Save […]
@ Julie
Why wouldn’t a child raised by a same sex couple be perfectly normal and grow up to be outstanding citizens?
Don’t just imply your bigotry. Lay it out on the table for everyone to see. We all know you want to.
To Julie –
When was the last time you were “diciplined” so forcefully that you were unable to sit. I remember when it happened to me. I remember when “dicipline” was not how many swats or spankings, but how many minutes of contuined “dicipline”. Please, enlighten me, where should a line be drawn? By your standard, there really is no such thing as child abuse. Tell that to the numerous children that dont survive what you consider aceptable.
As for the gay issue. Open your mind you right-wing, bible thumping moron. I am sure you have a MUCH better plan for the milions of children that dont have a loving family to cherish. People like you make me loose faith in my fellow human. I weep for your loss and your short sidedness. You are a misuided person.
Ok, Lets look at this objectively. Now the parent that spanked there kid with a belt is this something that was as severe as lets say 40 years ago when kids actually behaved and new that if they didn’t they got spanked and had welts on there tail that made it uncomfortable to sit. Did you get away with even half of what kids get away with now because parents aren’t alowed to touch there kids. Granted there is a line to be drawn, if the kid recieved bruising and bleeding welts or needed a hospital stay. But what do you tell your kids? No blood no tears, suck it up. There has to be physical retaliation for bad behavior children just don’t pay attention to anything else cause they know they don’t have to. Now on the side of the gay father and I mean father, because I think gay couples are just as capable or even more capable of love than straight couples cause there love has to withstand the hate of the world around them. Leave them alone, let them raise there kid in a healthy unbroken, caring home….
Dr. Spock was a numbnuts! I bet when the guy that used his belt on the kid tells his son its time to get off the computer, he gets off the computer! Unlike some states where the child calls the cops and the father gets tossed into jail for abuse! YAA Florida! Kids need to learn there are consequences for there actions, and there IS such a thing as corporal punishment! History proves how well Dr. Spock did with his own son!
White Zombie-you have got to be kidding me. I’m a heterosexual married man and a father and I couldn’t disagree with you more. Who are you to call someone else’s life “aberrant?” Perhaps the fact that what you call the “gay lifestyle” exists in animals all through nature means that they “chose” it, too? Being gay is not okay? Being ignorant is not okay, either, but unlike being gay, it truly IS a choice.
People wonder why children have no respect for anyone these days. It’s because there is no discipline. A child needs the strong hand of discipline every once in a while to teach right and wrong and before you start to cry about child abuse let me just tell you that I have been abused as a child and I know the difference. Different children of different ages need different means of discipline. Small children need a light swat on the bottom, toddlers might need a smack on the hand, and older children may need more if the situation warrants, and yes that can include the “strap” across the bottom. It’s the lack of the use of discipline that has children talking to their parents like street thugs. When I walk down the street and a 10 year old tries to stare me down I wonder what kind of father (or mother for that matter) that child has. The question of gays being allowed to adopt has little to nothing to do with child abuse and more to do with the fact that the gay lifestyle, something that the majority of the world agrees is immoral and just plain wrong, is not a healthy environment for a child of either sex to grow up in.
Why is it not a healthy environment? Because it does not agree with your morals or the imaginary morals of the Christian faith?
What proof do you have that being the child of a homosexual couple is unhealthy?
Thank you very much I hope you further progress and excellence
Julie, are you foolish? There is discipline, and then there is torment. Yeah, I’ll agree a slap in the face or smack on the rear, discipline. But tell me you wouldn’t be upset if a babysitter “disciplined” your kid by splitting their lip, bruising their cheek and causing them prolonged pain. I’ll just attribute your comments to not being close to well thought out.
I think many states need a “spring cleaning” of state laws. There are probably so many old laws that don’t fit with modern practice, such as this, it’s ridiculous.
I do believe in corporal punishment, but I DON’T believe smacking a kid on the legs, butt, or anywhere else for minutes on end. I also don’t believe it’s the type of punishment for every child. I had a younger cousin who cried when she was sternly scolded, and then she stopped being naughty until it was something else she wasn’t supposed to put her hands on/in. She didn’t deserve or get any spankings. Now my grandmother spanked me; I was a hard-headed child. Not bad, but if I didn’t listen after many times of doing what I was told not to do (and I was put on time-outs beforehand), I would get it.
Grandma got a switch, a slender little branch from one of her smaller bushes in her backyard. She tanned my little brown legs reddish-brown with several quick stinging swats, and that was that. I cried, got over it, and the red marks faded within minutes. I never did what it was that got me the spanking in the first place again.
Now my father was a drug-abusing lech who kicked me and my sister both forcefully to the floor, screamed at us, dragged me around by the collar a few times, out of a drunken/drug-induced anger. Later on when we were teens, he punched my sister in the mouth out of anger, because he was supposedly embarrassed in front of a friend by her. Now that’s abuse; can you say “immature”?
Luckily I was not like the 2 little boys in this blog post; I was raised by my mom and grandparents. If my mom couldn’t take care of me and my siblings, we had other family ready to take us. These kids in the story are being wrenched away from 2 loving parents because of them being men who love each other and their kids. That is a tragedy.
There are hetero couples who abuse and neglect their own kids; shifting kids around the system to avoid giving them to gay parents is very a hurtful action to the kids and potential parents. It’s not like the rich and celebrities want these children. People who try to justify gays not adopting children are people who fear that the gays’ adopted children will come out “gay” and “rub it off” on their own children.
And what about gays not being able to procreate? SO WHAT????? There are heterosexuals out there who aren’t reproducing and are sterile BY CHOICE. Why not prohibit child-free heteros’ rights too?
I’m amazed by many of the comments posted on this feed. I agree that there is a difference between getting a pop on the head or even a spanking, but bruising and the inability to sit are completly different. I grew up with mild pops to get my attention because my mother grew up being beaten. You can never justify beating a child. As for the glbt adoptions, the last I heard only strait people had gay children. Maybe we should make it illegal for straits to procreate. Then, all the children stuck in foster care, because of their strait parents, might have a chance.
[…] court ruling usually takes a few months. The criminal court case was dropped in 12 minutes. Who’s Your Daddy Milberg’s Musings __________________ "Speak up; for he that withholds his opinion shall inherit the winds of […]
There is a difference between discipline and abuse, and that father crossed it. There is nothing wrong with a swat on the rear, but when you’re causing welts and making it impossible for the child to sit down for what appears to be a day later and for nothing but bad grades… that’s child abuse. Discipline should be discipline, to reinforce the idea that the child did something wrong, not a means to hurt them because you’re pissed.
And that poor father who’s may be getting his kids taken away… With the hundreds of kids in foster care, they shouldn’t be turning down loving parents just because of their sexual orientation – that’s like turning away a happy, loving, financially secure couple just because they’re Catholic, or Atheist, or Vegan.
Good job Florida! You got something right. Discipline IS showing love to children. It means you do not want them to suffer the consequences of their undesciplined actions. In other words; LEARN from their small mistakes so that they do not need to make large mistakes later in life.
The gay definition of “love” is reason enough to keep them from adopting children. Children do not need all the diseases that follows the Adult’s chosen actions; hepatitus, meningitis, venereal diseases, AIDS. These and more are more prevalent in gay couples. Keep the children away from this for health reason alone if you can’t understand the moral reasons.
I agree with both rulings. As for the writer of the article, the fact that you would characterize two homosexuals as a “healthy family” shows how demented you are. In point of fact, homosexuals aren’t a family at all. You are a twisted individual.
Don’t hit your kids. That’s called “assault”.
I’m raising two of them now and I have yet to raise a had to either of them. It’s more work, but I think in the long run it will be worth it.
I’m not their “friend”. I’m their Father/Uncle. I am to be feared yet loved. My smites come from the reduction of privileges to the point where they’ll eat flavorless oatmeal and drink water in a room with just their bed and some books. (books being the only form of entertainment I consider a “right” not a “privilege”)
They both rarely misbehave. Especially if I compare them to the kids that get spankings.
As for the “gay adoption” issue, it’s a non-issue for me. Love is love, it does not matter the sex or if the parent is gay or not. Not letting a loving couple adopt and letting the child continue to be the burden of the state is the real crime. Much worse than assault, in my opinion.
So white zombie, a gay couple can’t reproduce on their own therefore they shouldn’t be allowed to adopt, is that correct? By that “logic”, infertile couples should not be allowed to adopt either.
Why do gays and lesbians form couples? Would it be absurd to send foster children to homes kept by gay “triples” or “quadruples”? What about all the other “alternative lifestyles” we discriminate against while we approve of homosexuals who emulate heterosexual couples?
It doesn’t matter if every biological father abused his children, it wouldn’t make the argument for a gay home any more logical.
The only good point you could have made here is how insane family court has become and how it’s been destroying lives.
But nice try on your use of the non sequitur!
Well first of all, child adoption into a home with poly-amorous adults isn’t even an option, nor is it even the issue at hand. This story talks about 2 gay men, identified as life partners – who love each other in a monogamous relationship, which is JUST LIKE the average hetero relationship.
Let’s stop making it sound like GLBTs share the same love they share with each other with their children. If that’s the case, then we should also fear incest among hetero couples with their kids. I have never heard of a homo couple taking advantage of their kids, unlike a father who locked up his own daughter and raped her for years while the mother did nothing to save her child or grandchildren brought into the world from such a union.
No one is perfect. There are GLBTs that desire children to raise too. We the majority should not judge them when society refuses to understand how they live and love. I hope I am still alive when they are finally accepted as humans deserving of the same rights.
GLBT = the new “black”, separate but definitely NOT equal.
I don’t think that anyone finds it odd that a conservative state has laws allowing severe child abuse and disallowing gays to adopt.
They got their laws straight from the bible, it tells us that it is ok to kill an unruly child and that homosexuality is punishable by death – Leviticus
They sure liked to kill a lot back in biblical times
Isn’t it funny how there were no school shootings until the “Time Out” kids got older? I and billions before me over the past couple THOUSAND years were taught to consider the consequences of our actions by being disciplined on the butt.
You have to remember people only have one brain. The brain that thinks it’s ok for a man to screw another man is the same brain they would use for child rearing decisions.
I bet you own a mac and think guns are evil. Thank you for contributing to the downfall of a once great nation.
Wait. What? No shootings? My 60 year old mother remembers when a kid in her state shot up his school, and this was waaay back when teacher’s were allowed to paddle kids. Or remember the Texas State shooting? The one that happened long before corporal punishment began to get looked down upon?
And your second paragraph makes no sense – that’s like saying that the brain that would make a straight man who thinks it’s okay to screw a woman might have skewed views about raising kids.
[…] milbergsmusings var infolink_pid = 14719; […]
Soupgoblin- While I agree with your statement, they didn’t kill gays in biblical times. There was no homosexuality in ancient times.Roman, Greek, Spartan, etc… men had wives and male lovers. The women were also known to keep male and female lovers, in the ruling classes of course. Don’t forget about the Isle of Lesbos. The idea that homosexuality is sinful only came after the bible was written. And now it is only used as a device to keep us divided, as I’m sure you can tell by all of the divisive statements being posted here by people who consider themselves “compassionate christians” .
You have taken two extreme cases to make your liberal point .. The man that beat his child until black and blue went overboard in disciplining his child and should have to answer for it .. maybe he understands that and the judge let him off with a warning..but that not what you want.. you want to take away parents right to discipline by spanking.. this has happen in a large part of USA already.. You want to hold a parent responsible for his children actions but take away his right to discipline them.. and you wonder where all these teenagers and adults come from with no respect for themselves or others.. I am 63 years old and heard a lot of men talk about their fathers that whipped them, some as bad or worse that this one .. always with respect and love for their father… I have never heard a man say my father never discipline me and i respect and love him for that.. About the gay parents thing — You always try to raise children in what you believe in .. what ever that is.. gay or straight.. Christian or atheist.. moral or immoral .. liberal or conservative.. you may not always succeed but you do try..
This man cannot have children, has a lifestyle that means he will never have children. Maybe he should not then have children, children should have never been with him in the first place. As for the other guy, he too should not be allowed to have children
[…] adoption is about to become legal in Uruguay. But as rather neatly contrasted here (thanks James), it is not legal in Florida – even though beating your children […]